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The 87 is getting there but...
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Topic: The 87 is getting there but... (Read 338 times)
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Mr. White
Dallas 2-0, Seattle 0-2
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Posts: 16888
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1987 Ford Mustang GT
Gridiron, TX
The 87 is getting there but...
«
on:
April 25, 2008, 08:59:30 PM »
I think my frame may be twisted
Before 2 new sets of springs (Perret - I owe you one), upper/lower control arms, bilsteins, cc plates
And after...
Progress is being made but the back of this car is still leaning to the driver's side and I have no other explanation. F'in money pit.
«
Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 09:01:51 PM by Mr. White
»
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computers_suc
They call me sparky.
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Posts: 4251
The Kootenays
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #1 on:
April 25, 2008, 09:08:13 PM »
Worse comes to worse, take it to a frame shop for them to spec it and "align" it.
I did that with my notch before i welded in the subframe connectors.
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91 ranger- 6" BDS suspension lift, 31x10.5 firestone M/T's, Fully rebuilt suspension, hacked airbox
Mr. White
Dallas 2-0, Seattle 0-2
Badass Resident
Posts: 16888
Vehicle:
1987 Ford Mustang GT
Gridiron, TX
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #2 on:
April 25, 2008, 09:10:15 PM »
That's the plan, I'll get estimates next week.
Do you recall how much you spent for it?
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computers_suc
They call me sparky.
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The Kootenays
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #3 on:
April 25, 2008, 09:15:33 PM »
Quote from: Mr. White on April 25, 2008, 09:10:15 PM
That's the plan, I'll get estimates next week.
Do you recall how much you spent for it?
I think i gave them $100 each and many beers later on. All the work was done after hours so it was under the table. And it wasnt out by very much, if i didn't have friends in the business, i would have left it alone, it was mainly for curiosity sake.
Note how i fed them the beer AFTER.
«
Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 09:24:57 PM by computers_suc
»
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91 ranger- 6" BDS suspension lift, 31x10.5 firestone M/T's, Fully rebuilt suspension, hacked airbox
Christa
Badass Member
Posts: 2369
Puyallup, Washington
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #4 on:
April 25, 2008, 09:18:33 PM »
Did you clock the rear springs so they are positioned the same?
Did you torque up the control arm bolts with weight on the suspension?
What are the fender dimensions left and right with the car on perfectly flat ground?
I have read many times in the past of leaning mustangs. Did it lean before? that should be a clue right there.
Also, if the car is structerally sound and still leans before you spend a ton on a frame machine I would just by a set of weight jacker rear control arms and dial the thing in until it is at the desired ride height.
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computers_suc
They call me sparky.
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The Kootenays
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #5 on:
April 25, 2008, 09:22:49 PM »
Quote from: Christa on April 25, 2008, 09:18:33 PM
Did you clock the rear springs so they are positioned the same?
Did you torque up the control arm bolts with weight on the suspension?
What are the fender dimensions left and right with the car on perfectly flat ground?
I have read many times in the past of leaning mustangs. Did it lean before? that should be a clue right there.
Also, if the car is structerally sound and still leans before you spend a ton on a frame machine I would just by a set of weight jacker rear control arms and dial the thing in until it is at the desired ride height.
Somehow i don't think thats Christa talking.
BTW, good points, especially the clocking and torquing.
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91 ranger- 6" BDS suspension lift, 31x10.5 firestone M/T's, Fully rebuilt suspension, hacked airbox
Mr. White
Dallas 2-0, Seattle 0-2
Badass Resident
Posts: 16888
Vehicle:
1987 Ford Mustang GT
Gridiron, TX
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #6 on:
April 25, 2008, 09:29:55 PM »
Short answer? I have no idea.
I broke down and hired a pro...no tools or time. Yes, it did lean in the same way when I got it (before H&R springs were installed, there were Eibachs and the lean was present).
Here's what I can tell you, I looked this car over (and so did the guy at the shop) and there's no evidence of this car ever taking a hit. Torque boxes are intact and no obvious damage. All paint is original. I was told there was nothing they could find wrong with the car mechanically speaking but something was obviously causing the lean.
Those weight jackers are interesting, that may be one way to go.
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computers_suc
They call me sparky.
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The Kootenays
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #7 on:
April 25, 2008, 09:44:21 PM »
Easiest way to go for sure.
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91 ranger- 6" BDS suspension lift, 31x10.5 firestone M/T's, Fully rebuilt suspension, hacked airbox
speedfreak87
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Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #8 on:
April 26, 2008, 04:42:30 AM »
lol! all foxes lean to the left. I have yet to see a fix for it. My 87gt did it, my sisters friends who owned mustangs all leaned to the left.. it's just a common thing.
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Karma will bite you in the ass, just give it time.
AmericanMustangs.net
MdniteDrftr
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Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #9 on:
April 26, 2008, 04:45:04 AM »
I thought all foxes leaned from the factory.
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-Rich
a****** Motorsports
1994 Ford Mustang GT vert
2001 Ford F250
David Claflin
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Posts: 8058
Vehicle:
1990 Ford Mustang LX
Professional Husband
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #10 on:
April 26, 2008, 05:11:02 AM »
Quote from: MdniteDrftr on April 26, 2008, 04:45:04 AM
I thought all foxes leaned from the factory.
The height of the rear wheelwells from the ground on both of mine are off. I think what I did before was to rotate one of the rear springs to help it some. Often times the rear is thrown off because of something in the front is not right. I thought of going to a body shop to get it straight because on a flat surface, and on jackstands, the right rear will have a gap of 1/2" from the subframe to the jackstand.
«
Last Edit: April 26, 2008, 06:13:58 AM by David Claflin
»
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1990 Red LX, daily driver 358RWHP/346RWTQ
1988 GT going bye-bye
1985 LTD LX, 351W, 10.6 c/r, Jay Allen Cam, 3" exhaust, SN 4 wheel disks
1990 Red Harley FXRS, Andrews EV-3 cam, other doo-dads
Ralph
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Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #11 on:
April 26, 2008, 06:05:45 AM »
Could always shim that spring too.
These things just lean. It's what they do.
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Christa
Badass Member
Posts: 2369
Puyallup, Washington
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #12 on:
April 26, 2008, 06:48:50 AM »
Quote from: speedfreak87 on April 26, 2008, 04:42:30 AM
lol! all foxes lean to the left. I have yet to see a fix for it. My 87gt did it, my sisters friends who owned mustangs all leaned to the left.. it's just a common thing.
weight jacker control arms fix it every time. I think mine were the Pro3i units.
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Mr. White
Dallas 2-0, Seattle 0-2
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Posts: 16888
Vehicle:
1987 Ford Mustang GT
Gridiron, TX
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #13 on:
April 26, 2008, 06:55:17 AM »
What's the trade off in noise or ride quality, if any?
I just put some HPM uppers and lowers on it so I want to make DAMN sure that I'm not just throwing a band-aid at it if there's a bigger issue.
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Christa
Badass Member
Posts: 2369
Puyallup, Washington
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #14 on:
April 26, 2008, 07:22:53 AM »
If anything the car will drive better with the Pro3i or MM weight jacker control arms as they are just a standard urethane bushed control arm. They are made to handle and less of a drag race piece then what you put in there. They give you like a 2 inch adjustability for rear height. Like 1 inch lower to 1 inch higher then a stock arm. Personally I would have left the stock uppers in there.
I may have a pic of my Pro3i units left over in my gallary in here otherwise you will have to wait till I get home from dirt land.
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Mr. White
Dallas 2-0, Seattle 0-2
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Posts: 16888
Vehicle:
1987 Ford Mustang GT
Gridiron, TX
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #15 on:
April 26, 2008, 07:31:51 AM »
You think something like this could work?
http://www.globalwest.net/1979-2004%20Mustang%20performance%20suspension%20parts.htm#Rear%20spring%20perch%20spacers
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Mr. Black
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Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #16 on:
April 26, 2008, 07:37:02 AM »
trying a attachment from the ole laptop.
CARMSP1020046.JPG
(53.3 KB, 680x445 - viewed 45 times.)
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We are Steve, resistance is futile!!!
05 Pontiac GTO, 6.0, M6, The loud model with H&R SUSPENSION OF COURSE!
2008 VW Passat 2.0T, 18" BBS wheels.
99PSD CC SB 4X4 6spd
95 CR250R woods bike, 06 Suzuki DR-Z400SM
Mr. Black
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Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #17 on:
April 26, 2008, 07:40:11 AM »
Yes a spacer would work if you were confident that you know exactly how much you need. The nice thing about actual weight jackers is it is infinetly adjustable within it's range if that makes sense.
Also I don't know if the Globals will work with a non stock arm.
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We are Steve, resistance is futile!!!
05 Pontiac GTO, 6.0, M6, The loud model with H&R SUSPENSION OF COURSE!
2008 VW Passat 2.0T, 18" BBS wheels.
99PSD CC SB 4X4 6spd
95 CR250R woods bike, 06 Suzuki DR-Z400SM
David Claflin
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Posts: 8058
Vehicle:
1990 Ford Mustang LX
Professional Husband
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #18 on:
April 26, 2008, 07:40:38 AM »
Wouldn't the different installed heights for each side affect handling?
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1990 Red LX, daily driver 358RWHP/346RWTQ
1988 GT going bye-bye
1985 LTD LX, 351W, 10.6 c/r, Jay Allen Cam, 3" exhaust, SN 4 wheel disks
1990 Red Harley FXRS, Andrews EV-3 cam, other doo-dads
Mr. Black
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Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #19 on:
April 26, 2008, 07:43:32 AM »
Yes, BUT there is more to it then that. Without corner weighting (scales) the car you will not know exactly what the change will be.
The bottom line, if it takes less then a half inch to level a car then the average driver or even better then average driver ain't gonna really notice it.
It's not worth losing sleep over.
«
Last Edit: April 26, 2008, 07:47:00 AM by Mr. Black
»
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We are Steve, resistance is futile!!!
05 Pontiac GTO, 6.0, M6, The loud model with H&R SUSPENSION OF COURSE!
2008 VW Passat 2.0T, 18" BBS wheels.
99PSD CC SB 4X4 6spd
95 CR250R woods bike, 06 Suzuki DR-Z400SM
Mr. White
Dallas 2-0, Seattle 0-2
Badass Resident
Posts: 16888
Vehicle:
1987 Ford Mustang GT
Gridiron, TX
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #20 on:
April 26, 2008, 07:45:44 AM »
I did a search on the Kooral and found this by Miffy that throws a monkey wrench into this whole ordeal
Quote from: MFE
I haven't read all these responses so forgive me if I'm being redundant but what I see is a focus on the rear of the car. Problem is most of the lean on these cars has to do with the front suspension, not the rear, although it'll make itself more evident in the back of the car. The reason is because there's so much more weight on each front spring than there is on each of the rears, and any drop in one of the front springs has an effect on the corresponding rear spring. In fact it may be raising the opposite rear corner. I'll let you know when I get around to fixing mine, which is going to involve a small cut to the right front spring to fix a lean to the left.
I'm not saying that the springs are the exact cause of the lean but if you want to fix a lean to the left at the "rear" of the car, you either need to raise the left front or lower the right front.
If you try to fix it in the rear all you'll do is jack the rear higher in the air and the lean will still exist. Been there done that. I tried to fix a lean on my car with a spacer on the low-side rear spring and all it did was raise the entire rear end a corresponding amount while leaving the lean in place. And just recently I replaced the rear springs to bring the whole assembly down a bit, and the springs are exactly equal. So are the fronts, and yet I noticed when all was said and done the lean still exists. It may be a structural issue of some sort but if it's going to be fixed it has to be fixed in the front.
Either raise the low side front with a spacer or isolator or lower the high side front with a cut or what have you and when you level the front, you'll level the rear.
Others in this thread have tried the weight jackers and said all it did was raise the entire rear and the lean stays as is - just higher up.
This is frustrating. Maybe I just need to lower my standards.
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Mr. Black
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South Hill Wa.
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #21 on:
April 26, 2008, 07:50:25 AM »
There is soem truth to the miffer.
I had good luck with the setup on my car though.
You never did say how much lean you have or I just missed it.
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We are Steve, resistance is futile!!!
05 Pontiac GTO, 6.0, M6, The loud model with H&R SUSPENSION OF COURSE!
2008 VW Passat 2.0T, 18" BBS wheels.
99PSD CC SB 4X4 6spd
95 CR250R woods bike, 06 Suzuki DR-Z400SM
Mr. Black
Official H&R Spokesperson!!!
Badass Supporter
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Posts: 22222
Vehicle:
2005 Pontiac GTO
South Hill Wa.
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #22 on:
April 26, 2008, 08:06:14 AM »
This backs up how stiff the front spring is on a mustang. Not to mention how well subframe connectors work.
Couple of other points of interest. Our Cobra leaned bad and as the miffer stated it was the front and it was the front that was visibly not level. I ended up fixing that one with a custom shim job of the front K member to the unibody subframe. What a PIA. I don't tollerate cars that lean. IT is BS and should not be settled for.
Subframeswork.jpg
(61.77 KB, 600x450 - viewed 34 times.)
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We are Steve, resistance is futile!!!
05 Pontiac GTO, 6.0, M6, The loud model with H&R SUSPENSION OF COURSE!
2008 VW Passat 2.0T, 18" BBS wheels.
99PSD CC SB 4X4 6spd
95 CR250R woods bike, 06 Suzuki DR-Z400SM
Mr. Black
Official H&R Spokesperson!!!
Badass Supporter
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Posts: 22222
Vehicle:
2005 Pontiac GTO
South Hill Wa.
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #23 on:
April 26, 2008, 08:11:46 AM »
Oooh ooh ooh, one last thing and then I will leave you alone for a while, if you don't make an adjustement to the rear as far as level, it is a good idea to have the sway bar bolts loose at the control arm while adjusting or shimming. I know it seems stupid, but those little points of binding add up to a leaning car.
What method did you use or the front springs?
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We are Steve, resistance is futile!!!
05 Pontiac GTO, 6.0, M6, The loud model with H&R SUSPENSION OF COURSE!
2008 VW Passat 2.0T, 18" BBS wheels.
99PSD CC SB 4X4 6spd
95 CR250R woods bike, 06 Suzuki DR-Z400SM
Mr. White
Dallas 2-0, Seattle 0-2
Badass Resident
Posts: 16888
Vehicle:
1987 Ford Mustang GT
Gridiron, TX
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #24 on:
April 26, 2008, 08:35:16 AM »
It measures about 25.5 inches from the ground to top of fender lip on the driver's side.
Pass side is almost exactly 1 inch taller.
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David Claflin
Badass Member
Posts: 8058
Vehicle:
1990 Ford Mustang LX
Professional Husband
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #25 on:
April 27, 2008, 05:56:50 AM »
Quote from: Mr. White on April 26, 2008, 08:35:16 AM
It measures about 25.5 inches from the ground to top of fender lip on the driver's side.
Pass side is almost exactly 1 inch taller.
How are the fronts? Tire pressures all the same?
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1990 Red LX, daily driver 358RWHP/346RWTQ
1988 GT going bye-bye
1985 LTD LX, 351W, 10.6 c/r, Jay Allen Cam, 3" exhaust, SN 4 wheel disks
1990 Red Harley FXRS, Andrews EV-3 cam, other doo-dads
Mr. White
Dallas 2-0, Seattle 0-2
Badass Resident
Posts: 16888
Vehicle:
1987 Ford Mustang GT
Gridiron, TX
Re: The 87 is getting there but...
«
Reply #26 on:
April 27, 2008, 05:59:50 AM »
Yep. Full tank of gas, old parts in the trunk.
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David Claflin
Badass Member