Con rods question, old vs new

[Aussie XAXB]

You would think this would be such a simple piece of info to find on the net but I am going nuts trying to find this out......

Between the old windsor 302 and the later Cleveland built 302 are the pistons and/or connecting rods different?? I was wondering if the newer 5.0 has shorter skirts on the pistons or if the location of the wrist pin was different requiring a different rod as well???


Thanks,
  Steve

[W.O.T. Stang]

You would think this would be such a simple piece of info to find on the net but I am going nuts trying to find this out......

Between the old windsor 302 and the later Cleveland built 302 are the pistons and/or connecting rods different?? I was wondering if the newer 5.0 has shorter skirts on the pistons or if the location of the wrist pin was different requiring a different rod as well???


Thanks,
 Steve

Jeez, now that is a good question.  I don't know much about the older 302's

These sites may help a little.

http://www.oemfordparts.com/faq/smallblockv8.htm
http://www.ffcobra.com/FAQ/351.html

This guy also has an email on his page at the bottom that invites you to ask questions about the different motors.
http://www.geocities.com/infieldg/v8main.html

Hope that helps out some.  If I come across anything more, i'll post it here for you.

[Aussie XAXB]

Thanks for the links. Unfortunately none of them supplied any of the info I was hoping to find. However one of them did provide some info that a Yahoo group I am a member of has been looking for for a while so I posted a link to it there. I am sure they will really appreciate that.


Steve

[W.O.T. Stang]

Thanks for the links. Unfortunately none of them supplied any of the info I was hoping to find. However one of them did provide some info that a Yahoo group I am a member of has been looking for for a while so I posted a link to it there. I am sure they will really appreciate that.

Steve

Sorry that didn't help.  It's very hard to find what your looking for so far.  Not only do I need to look up correct info on the cleveland 302, but i also need to find info on the older windsor 302's.  Then i'm looking for piston specifics and dimensions.  A funny suggestion I just thought of is to go look at a parts store in a haynes book and compare the clearances and sizes for cars you know that have cleveland/winsor 302s.  Kind of a last resort option though.

Anyways, while looking for info for you, I can across this site.  It may help with your buildup somehow.. not sure, but I figured i'd show it to you rather then not.

http://www.amotion.com/fsw.html

Bunch of part numbers, some flow numbers and just some random Ford V8 info.

If I find anything closer that will help you out with what your looking for, i'll let you know.

[Aussie XAXB]

That is a very interesting site. Someone had LOTS of time to type all that besides the research that went into it.

I appreciate you looking around. I see you found it is quite a challenging task too. You would think it would be easy to find this stuff online. Don't take up all your time searching though, I am sure you have plenty of your own stuff to worry about, but your effort is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Going to a parts store is my last resort. Good idea. Looks like that may be the way I have to go. I was going to ask at the shop that's going to be doing the machining if I couldn't find it online. I know that they will know. They've been building and racing engines since the 60's.


Steve

[Freakingstang]

68-95 302's all use the same rod.  Same rod length 5.09", same part number, it is a C8 number.  Don't know about 96-? explorer, etc.  Don't know about Boss 302 motors, or the Mexican 302's, as I have not dealt with them extensively.  I have quite a few newer 302's torn apart right now.  As far as the piston skirt, I can't answer that one as I don't have any old 302 pistons laying around anymore.  I do know that the newer pistons have differant dimensions for the ring landings.  They are metric measurements whereas the old 302 pistons used a std measurement ring landing.

[W.O.T. Stang]

Here is the lastest info I found!

The connecting rod length (mean) is 5.0900 for the 302 Windsor (1968-2000).

The connecting rod length (mean) is 5.7800 for the 351 Cleveland (1970-1974).

The pistons are the same for bore size of 4.000 other than that I don't think that they are the same size for skirt height, but again, its very unclear which pretty much puts us back where we started.

Maybe this link might help.

http://www.wiseco.com/PDFcatalogs/auto04.pdf

These people will know for sure Ford Tech. Line (586) 468-1356 they don't have a an 800 number.

Also, The reason it's so hard to find the 302 cleveland info, is because as i'm sure you know, it's an aussie only motor.  After thinking about that, I dont think any Windsor piston will swap into a Cleveland piston due to the valve arrangement.  Not 100% certain on that, but i'll check back with any new info I find out.

Not sure if that previous info will help, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

[Aussie XAXB]

Steve, I just ran across that info yesterday too, about the C8 number so it is all the same original rod.


As for the Cleveland 302, what I am talking about is the 5.0 generation of the 302 being cast at the Cleveland Engine plant. Now, me not having been a Ford guy until recently, was that still the Windsor design??? I know the 5.0 was cast in Cleveland for quite a while until it went totally out of production. I have family members that work at that plant and my wife has worked there for about the past 5 or 6 years. I also have a shirt with a Fox bodied Mustang and a cloud of smoke that says "Cleveland Engine Plant, Making Muscle, Home of the 5.0" so I thought that it was a newer Cleveland design? I thought that at least the pistons might be shorter in overall height and be lighter?

Uuumm.....anyone have questions about Mopars??     



Steve

[Freakingstang]

The 302's made in the cleveland engine plant are still the Windsor family.  When the 351 was made, they made the 351C in well you guessed it, cleveland ohio.  Now the 351W was made in Windsor canada.  After they quite making the 351C's, all the tooling for the 351W/302 was moved to the Cleveland Engine plant sometime in the late 70's early 80's. 

Now as far as your piston quesiton, I know this.  You can take a piston from a 95 motor and put in a 68 motor, and vice versa.  They all share the same bore and stroke.  The only thing that is differant between the years is they changed from external balance to internal balance.  I don't know the exact year on this, it was somewhere around 77-78.

[Aussie XAXB]

Aha, I see. I knew all the rest but I did not know that the tooling at the Cleveland plant (Which  has always been located in Brookpark....hhmm....go figure) for the 302 was Windsor tooling. Interesting!!! Thanks.

I found what you did about the pistons for the most part. Also that there was a Mexican engine too. Geessh.


..........Hey, think about it....since the plant is really in Brookpark it should be called the 351 Brookpark!


...eeewww  That sounds nasty, but then again if it was always called that from the begining we wouldn't know any different.



Steve